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Chapter XVII
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Sabredurid330



Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 503

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I thought the same thing about Scourge ressurected undead. Obviously, Forsaken are a different story with their means of ressurection, but I thought that when the scourge ressurected something, it had no will or thought of its own, and hence, no soul.
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Aidinthel



Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 3145
Location: a series of lairs, each more secret than the last

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, I think that the soul is still there, it just has no control and is forced to watch what its body does.
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Exodus



Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 2262
Location: P-Town represent!

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe it depends on how long the corpse has been dead. Take, for instance, Sylvanas. She was reanimated right after death and ended up having a will of her own in the end. The skeletons that are just that, animated skeletons and are pure bone however, have had time to rot away all their flesh and the soul with it. Ever notice how the more flesh something has, the more of a soul you seem to think it posesses?

That's just right off the top of my head as it comes, and doesn't really make much sense to me, but that's my ideas.
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Saranus



Joined: 06 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought the deal with Sylvanas and the Forsaken was that they were mindless, soulless minions of the Scourge, but somehow their spirits were returned to their reanimated bodies when the Lich King lost control over them.
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Albatros
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Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Posts: 2111

PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saranus wrote:
I thought the deal with Sylvanas and the Forsaken was that they were mindless, soulless minions of the Scourge, but somehow their spirits were returned to their reanimated bodies when the Lich King lost control over them.

that's been my interpretation.
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Farsider



Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 913

PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The backstory of Naxxramas which is on the Blizz official site suggests that even the zombie minions of the Scourge retain their "soul" or at least their consciousness, and have free and independent though even when they are completely under the control of the Lich King. A newly-risen zombie woman was heard crying and moaning in sadness and dispair when the Lich King ordered her to kill and eat her husband. Several of the WCIII:TFT missions also heavily hint that even the Scourgelings retain their memories and personalities to the point that Arthas himself was worried when he came across a group of undead, and didn't know if they had CHOSEN to be loyal to the Lich King or to rebel against him.

It's been my interpretation that the thing that sets the Forsaken apart from the Scourge is that they don't hear the Lich King's voice in their head and don't have any compulsion to follow his orders anymore.

Just my .02
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Amaunator



Joined: 03 Dec 2005
Posts: 2074
Location: Belgium ... innocuous but intrepid!

PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Farsider wrote:
The backstory of Naxxramas which is on the Blizz official site suggests that even the zombie minions of the Scourge retain their "soul" or at least their consciousness, and have free and independent though even when they are completely under the control of the Lich King. A newly-risen zombie woman was heard crying and moaning in sadness and dispair when the Lich King ordered her to kill and eat her husband. Several of the WCIII:TFT missions also heavily hint that even the Scourgelings retain their memories and personalities to the point that Arthas himself was worried when he came across a group of undead, and didn't know if they had CHOSEN to be loyal to the Lich King or to rebel against him.

It's been my interpretation that the thing that sets the Forsaken apart from the Scourge is that they don't hear the Lich King's voice in their head and don't have any compulsion to follow his orders anymore.

Just my .02


If the loremaster says it, it must be true!

Since my statement caused this little ripple in the thread, I'll state it more fiercely: Undead have souls too! The poor souls Sad.
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Exodus



Joined: 26 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Farsider wrote:
The backstory of Naxxramas which is on the Blizz official site suggests that even the zombie minions of the Scourge retain their "soul" or at least their consciousness, and have free and independent though even when they are completely under the control of the Lich King. A newly-risen zombie woman was heard crying and moaning in sadness and dispair when the Lich King ordered her to kill and eat her husband. Several of the WCIII:TFT missions also heavily hint that even the Scourgelings retain their memories and personalities to the point that Arthas himself was worried when he came across a group of undead, and didn't know if they had CHOSEN to be loyal to the Lich King or to rebel against him.

It's been my interpretation that the thing that sets the Forsaken apart from the Scourge is that they don't hear the Lich King's voice in their head and don't have any compulsion to follow his orders anymore.

Just my .02


To use the TMiL way to say it, the Forsaken are different from the Scourge only in that they cut the little string in the back of their heads Razz. Sylvanas was somewhat of a special case, though. She seemed to have more of a will and almost complete control over her actions and thoughts. This is probably because he brain hadn't rotted away yet...
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The Dark Canuck



Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 232

PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Farsider wrote:
The backstory of Naxxramas which is on the Blizz official site suggests that even the zombie minions of the Scourge retain their "soul" or at least their consciousness, and have free and independent though even when they are completely under the control of the Lich King. A newly-risen zombie woman was heard crying and moaning in sadness and dispair when the Lich King ordered her to kill and eat her husband. Several of the WCIII:TFT missions also heavily hint that even the Scourgelings retain their memories and personalities to the point that Arthas himself was worried when he came across a group of undead, and didn't know if they had CHOSEN to be loyal to the Lich King or to rebel against him.

It's been my interpretation that the thing that sets the Forsaken apart from the Scourge is that they don't hear the Lich King's voice in their head and don't have any compulsion to follow his orders anymore.

Just my .02

That's my interpretation as well. Essentially, the Lich King's slaves can "choose" to follow the King's orders, but not to disobey those orders. Thus, it remains possible for him to maintain "individuals" in his hordes so long as they are following his will. Also, remember that at least a sizable minority of the Undead are willing servants of the Lich King-the Cult of the Damned was not small even before his armies showed up. The Forsaken (and the armies of the three Dreadlords) broke free of the Lich King's control after Illidan weakened him in WCIII TFT, and the survivors have been free since.
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Aidinthel



Joined: 13 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Cult of the Damned members arn't undead in WoW. They're just evil humans hanging out with the scourge.
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Ulkarr



Joined: 23 Jul 2005
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Location: Brisbane

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They were in WC3 aswell.
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Albatros
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Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Posts: 2111

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thought you folks'd like to know that I sat down tonight for the first time in a long time and cranked out a couple good pages of story. I'm gonna push on through the rest of the chapter before I post, but that'll hopefully be tomorrow or Thursday. Life is still too crazy to go back to weekly posting right away, but I thought I'd let you know that I'm back to the grindstone!
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Farsider



Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 913

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yay! I'll have an extra desert for you tonight to celebrate. For you. The desert. I'll just be eating it. Y'know, since I can't really email it to you. I'll imagine that you are enjoying it while I'm eating.
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Aidinthel



Joined: 13 Mar 2006
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Location: a series of lairs, each more secret than the last

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finally, some good news. Very Happy ......I really should write that English essay...
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Heloly



Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 1602

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.....You know, hinting at an update judt around the corner is almost worst than absolute silence. Nw you are just dangling it in front of a noses like the proverbial carrot on a stick.



You cruel SOB. Wink
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